Euro 2008!

[ILuv_Milano]

Okay they got to the final end of story. That's not going to change. What I'm saying is why didn't other teams that played better than Germany in this tournament (because it was not only Spain who did so) make it to the final? When you've got other teams who played better but still didn't make it as far you have to wonder if luck played a role in Germany getting to the final. I know that's not it completely, Germany  had a strong squad they are known throughout history for having strong teams but they didn't deliver like other teams did but yet, they still got there.

I don't want to get on anyone's bad side with this whole thing. I'm just saying because I clearly saw in the Germany forum you saying they should have won and I wonder why it is you think that because as far as I know the team who should have won did win so what are you talking about?

[Kash]

Here's the thing though - Germany *was* in the final, not Turkey, not Portugal, not Croatia, etc. No one is taking anything away from the *fact* that Germany *was* in the final. You don't get to the final in any competition without conviction and self-belief, two things that the German NT has in abundance and thats something that any fan of the Ger NT can be proud of.

There is something that just *irks* a lot of people about the German NT, though, and I think thats where the comments about whether they "deserved" to be in the final come in. For example, Ballack *pushed* PF for the third goal. Every replay shows it, the commentators completely noticed and called him out for it. It was a foul and that goal shouldn't have been given. Yes, it was a mistake of the ref (just as many called Ruud's opener goal against Italy a mistake), but it also makes a lot of non-fans of the GNT (like me haha!) kinda scoff and roll their eyes and think, man the Germans were lucky. Another thing, the ball should have been put out of play in the 90th minute against Turkey. Kazim went down injured, and I'm sorry, but putting the ball out of play just *is* good sportsmanship, for me. But they didn't and scored a goal. Again, while I'm sure their fans were celebrating like hell for that goal, a lot of neutrals, etc were kinda rolling their eyes again.

The thing is though, if you are a fan of the NT, you are not going to agree with my points. And that's fine. Everybody likes to see their country/team in the best light and that's cool. I'm just saying, there *is* a reason a lot of people did sort of scoff at GNT's performance in this Euro. No one is disparaging them from reaching the final. They went in and won games and got there. They just didn't produce that groundswell of support from other neutrals that Spain did for reasons mentioned above. And that's just the best way I can explain it.

[Whisper]

Okay they got to the final end of story. That's not going to change. What I'm saying is why didn't other teams that played better than Germany in this tournament (because it was not only Spain who did so) make it to the final? When you've got other teams who played better but still didn't make it as far you have to wonder if luck played a role in Germany getting to the final. I know that's not it completely, Germany had a strong squad they are known throughout history for having strong teams but they didn't deliver like other teams did but yet, they still got there.

I don't want to get on anyone's bad side with this whole thing. I'm just saying because I clearly saw in the Germany forum you saying they should have won and I wonder why it is you think that because as far as I know the team who should have won did win so what are you talking about?

Perhaps if you're going to bring that tiny element of luck into it then consider Spain's goal in the final: They weren't able to score anymore (and neither were the Germans) but how differently the game could have gone if it hadn't have gone in. What about the referee's decisions? Just seemed more than a little onesided to me. Maybe it wasn't completely luck but luck might have a little something to do with it, eh?

AND of course I think they should've won mainly because that's the team i support. But obviously they didn't and credit to Spain they were probably the better team on the night and consistently had good performances throughout the tournament. But regardless of how they played, I'm a Germany supporter and will probably ALWAYS think they should win EVERY game they play. And I believe my post on the germany forum basically read that they should've won, but second is not that bad- don't exactly understand what you got out of that...

[ILuv_Milano]

I don't want to go on with this really. I understand you completely and where you are coming from but my point in all this is that Spain deservedly won and I think it's wrong that people think Spain got lucky because they didn't. The goal from Torres was pure class and it was not luck. Perhaps it might not have gone in if the defenders were on but they weren't so that's their fault, no? I don't want to take away from the Germans. They are great. The referee decisions were not one sided either. Ballack got lucky not to have gotten yellow carded a second time and before he go the first card he commited a couple fouls that other refs would have carded but no.

You made it to the final...that's great. I'm sure other supporters from other countries would have something to say about that and while I might agree they didn't happen, Germany did. If they did it was for a reason yes, they have talent and heart just know that some of their victories were questionable.

Seriously I don't want to get more into this. I'm sorry if I offended anyone and I've said many times already I don't want to take away from the German team I'm just defending my team and their hard-earned victory. Because as a Spain supporter I've seen the many talented squads who also played with a lot of heart and also put up some good fights but somehow never managed to make a final until now.

[Whisper]

Don't get me wrong, I do understand your stance completely. My point is that Germany were in the final and that should not be attributed simply to luck. Perhaps one could argue that the foul on Ferreria wasn't called and that's the referee's fault and that the final goal against Turkey shouldn't have stood but the ref didn't blow the whistle when the player went down and it's the referee's fault rather than luck. However, the final did appear very onesided to me... I seem to recall a certain head-butt by Silva not receiving a red card. But all that is beside the point. As i've said Spain probably deserved the victory but all the same, Germany deserved to be runners up.

[santiago]

I remember the headbutt of Silva. But I also remember the scene in which Lehmann should have been carded, Podolski for provocing and Ballack for constantly complaining Lol I also remember the Ballack goal against Portugal which shouldn't have been given and I also remember the red card against Schweini, also he should have got a two match ban.

But yeah, you are right. The Euro is over and hell, I won't complain about Spain as this time football won, not luck or whatever. Pure skills and deserved victories throughout the whole tournemant. How did someone say? This wasn't only a victory for Spain, this was a victory for football.

If not anything else, Germany played well against Portugal ...

I hope you are not pointing out their style of football though ... different countires have different styles .... but I think you mean they got their by luck ... o well ... i would say it was obvious they were favourites against turkey given their longer history andhigher standing and all ... *dont' kill me* - i didn't comment on the game, its just that ppl expected them to win that match anyways ...

[cristianoz_lady]

I remember the headbutt of Silva. But I also remember the scene in which Lehmann should have been carded, Podolski for provocing and Ballack for constantly complaining Lol I also remember the Ballack goal against Portugal which shouldn't have been given and I also remember the red card against Schweini, also he should have got a two match ban.

But yeah, you are right. The Euro is over and hell, I won't complain about Spain as this time football won, not luck or whatever. Pure skills and deserved victories throughout the whole tournemant. How did someone say? This wasn't only a victory for Spain, this was a victory for football.

I agree